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Post by ongar55 on May 20, 2009 14:32:22 GMT -5
Hey Theos, Hi to the forum ;D theos as you well no these things are very individual but im looking for a general anwser just to put me on the right path , If somone is dieting for cosmetics and there goal is lean/ripped. Without proper coaching Spike days are a non issue IMO. these need the right expertise to be applied. but also as you know diets have to be 'sustanable'. So in real world situations eating a relative calorie decifit over time can be both mentally and physically tuff. And at cetain times 'spike days' may be needed, but not weekly. my question is if somone is NOT quite mature enough for the cycle diet/weekly re feeds how would you go about making this diet sustanable? would you a) maybe once a week increase cals with clean foods nothing major maybe 1cup of oats instead of 1/2. 180g potato instead of 120g thats sort of thing, or b) have spike days with junk food not weekly but when fat loss stalls and energy/pump suffer in the gym, I have 9 weeks till a photoshoot and hope to get in my best shape. im currently 185lbs,approx 11-12% bf,at 6ft 1, My diet calls for around 1600cals thats the diet from the " Master Blaster" himself LOL.. In a general sense "again" what sort of change should I be abel to make in that time frame? Is my goal realistic? Best Danny  |
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Post by darius on May 20, 2009 22:39:29 GMT -5
I am no Theo, but my 0.2 cents,
You answered your own question when you said spike days might be needed, but not necessarily on weekly basis. I think Scott calls it "critical times". I don't think any other time is applicable.
As far as spiking calories with your diet foods goes, IMO is not necessary. PART of the reason we use relative caloric deficit vs. absolute caloric deficit is so we can fuel our body and activities. How will taking that extra 1/2 a cup of oats make your day?
Darius
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Post by ongar55 on May 21, 2009 6:04:56 GMT -5
The reason i suggested to spike cals " slighlty" with diet foods, Is because if im NOT in "supercomp" the junk spike will do me NO favours,
Ask anyone who has dieted in a relative calorie deficit over a period of time its not 'always' about wanting to pig out with food its sometimes you want to feel fuller 'thus' making the whole thing sustanable. Believe me id love to add 1/2 cup of Oats to my diet, its not alot cals wise but that extra 40g of Oats can make ME feel more satisfied and help my hunger,
Best
Dan
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Post by Theo Papatheofanous on May 21, 2009 6:37:37 GMT -5
Dan,
Welcome to the board;well,ever since mentoring with Scott this year,I've found out that there are many ways to go about it...now there's competition dieting which deals more with 'critical periods' as Darius states and then there's the CD as it's known through the material presented by Scott.In addition,it depends on the conditioning one wants to accomplish in the end.I've been dealing with at least three models this year who DID NOT want to be shredded but wanted more of an extra lean look softer to the eye because of the publication...so,again,individuality is key...
Spikes should be looked at as CALORIE spikes and not so much as macro spikes although both can serve their purpose...and in cosmetics,increasing 'clean' cals as you'd say CAN serve their purpose to be sure.Before reaching spike days I would always 'lead' into it by calorie cycling...this was before Scott,but for me,this worked like a charm for the lean look that you seem to be shooting for...this year though,Scott is my objective eye and he has helped me increase my LBM and get shredded at the same time...thus far,I am very impressed.He is now starting to learm my responses and together with proper biofeedback have developed what's working right now as well as long term awareness.
In the end,both scenarios can work;BUT you need to learn responses to your training/diet/recup protocol...and that is the tricky part...you can always experiment and learn as you go...this is how I've done it with myself and many others whom I've worked with in the past...When I first started I worked with people for free to begin with for my own research type projects;most were so happy with results,they would end paying me in the end...LOL...I actually became quite good at reading responses based on said protocols and this is how I've developed my art...Scott has helped me better understand and polish my methodologies and seems that this will be a continued endeavor for a long time.
Danny,all I can say is that once you learn how to read responses you can 'strategically' use spikes to ENHANCE the physique...whether you choose clean or not,needs state will have to be the deciding factor.How long have you been dieting ? How have you progressed thus far ? Are you happy with the progress ? Biofeedback ? Let us know...
Best,
Theo
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Post by ongar55 on May 21, 2009 6:49:47 GMT -5
Theos thanks for the welcome and for anwering my question,
Yes these photo's im doing are more for my own port folio,And the look im aiming for is pretty much as you described,I dont want to be bodybuilder rippped, ie: sirated delts,quads,vains in my lower abs etc, But have that more lean,hard but softer look,
I have noticed theres a HUGE difference betwenn UK fitness models and the ones in the USA.
In england the magazines etc go for a guy they dont really carry huge amounts of muscle there all chest and abs really LOL,most fitness models are weighing like 175-185 lb.
I think i will monitor my own bio-feedback that best I can over these next 9 weeks and see how I go,
My fear was adding in spike days that set me back and then come camera day, I look fat LOL, and think " well its my own fault" you know what i mean,
I cant wait for the day when i have a Coach to guide me, as right now i have plenty of so called experts telling me what to do,
There ALL suggesting clen,t3, etc. but I dont think there what i really want to do,
Best
Danny
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Post by Theo Papatheofanous on May 21, 2009 7:47:40 GMT -5
Danny,
OK...so at least you know where you 'need' to be;that's good because objectivity becomes a little more clearer,even though it's best be done by a qualified coach.Now,gurus advising you to use clen,t3,etc is just plain nonsense.I'm not saying they don't have their place BUT to just dish it out like that is wrong...I've witnessed many who have played with compounds they did not have experience with and 'hope' that it would take care of the 'work' for them,only to look like flat pancakes the day of...listen,you need the foundation of diet/training consistency along with proper application(s) for you and someone to read through your responses objectively to avoid misdirection...whether you are using clen,test,etc...
Best,
Theo
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Post by ongar55 on May 21, 2009 8:03:31 GMT -5
Thanks again Theos,And you quite right re: People giving out advice suggesting clen,t3 etc.. These guys amlost believe you "cant" get ripped or in shape without,using steroids and t3. I know this is not that case.
Im NOT looking for NO quick fixes and think im got it in me to see this through to the best I can.
Ive heard alot of bad stuff about t3/t4 people using it to get 'lean' only to completey mess there thyroid up leaving them in all sorts of trouble,
Then theres the test etc, it might give me that "edge" but its not good looking good covered in Acne due to it.
Ill keep plodding away and report back with how I get on,
thanks for the advice bro
Dan
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Post by Theo Papatheofanous on May 21, 2009 9:07:36 GMT -5
No worries Danny.All the best brother...check in whenever you can.
Best,
Theo
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Post by ongar55 on May 21, 2009 9:32:54 GMT -5
Danny,all I can say is that once you learn how to read responses you can 'strategically' use spikes to ENHANCE the physique...whether you choose clean or not,needs state will have to be the deciding factor.How long have you been dieting ? How have you progressed thus far ? Are you happy with the progress ? Biofeedback ? Let us know... Best, Theo Theos just re reading this thread I only just caught this LOL. Ive been dieting now for 4weeks.and have 9weeks to go,although ive made some good progress, As yet im not happy with my physique,others are telling me im good but everyone is there worst critic ;D In all honesty ive been having to many Spike Days, which has lead to more maintanence/slow fat loss rather that nicely leaning out each week, From this week on im going to cut the sunday spike days out for now, and read my own biofeedback, If 6 weeks down the line im really happy with my condition and energy levels are low i may through a spike day in, that would leave me 3weeks left till photo day and spike would be added based on condition, Im thinking along the lines of,in the last 3 weeks if condition is spot on,have weekly refeeds,if condition is not as good then dont take none  LOL. Is there a way to 'truely' know your in supercomp? Best Danny |
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Post by Theo Papatheofanous on May 21, 2009 11:41:49 GMT -5
Danny, Here's some advice...did Scott advise you to implement the spike ? Out of curiosity of course.In any case,don't take offence at what I am about to tell you but instead learn from it...the spike is not there to enhance your condition DIRECTLY...it is meant to be strategically placed to allow you TO SURVIVE your days of relative deficit and to keep your metabolism humming on high and avoid metabolic crashes from dieting over long periods of time.The fact you mention spikes be placed here and there almost in a pre detrmined way,is false.Biofeedback will dictate your destiny and at best this needs to be monitored on a weekly basis and sometimes on a day to day.In addition,your last week is another story alltogether as well...looking great in a mirror and looking great in a picture are two separate issues that need to be adressed,to optimize your 'look' while being photographed...remember when I told you getting ripped hurts  Well... Theo |
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Post by ongar55 on May 21, 2009 12:53:59 GMT -5
No Scott gave me a diet but didnt mention about spikes, But I had done Spike meals before this, Just for sanity really and social issues, ie,going out with my girlfriend on the weekends( if shes lucky haha)
My spikes are nothing in comparison to what ive seen, not mentioning no names *cough* Theos LOL
I understand what your are saying though mate and its all been taken on board,
Once again thanks for your replies
Best
Danny
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Post by Theo Papatheofanous on May 21, 2009 13:12:04 GMT -5
Danny,
Yeah...I thought so about spikes...as for spiking because of social issues and what not...forget about it...that will have a negative affect on your portfolio man...If this is truly important to you,change your mindset and explain it to your girlfriend from the get go.In addition,from your posts I know what kind of diet you're on...doesn't mean you can't go to a restaurant...you just need to go somewhere that can cater to you...it's easy to go and eat chicken and potatoes in a restaurant setting...you should know your portions enough to guesstimate...there's always options...you just have to inform yourself little brother.
Best,
Theo
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LOL.
Well...